Oct 092012

In a post last May we discussed our high relief silver proof coin releases, promising some exciting new announcements in response to the increasing popularity of this genre.

Since then we’ve released several more of these spectacular coins.

Not surprising, given the huge demand for everything celebrating the Year of the Dragon, individual 2012 high relief silver proof Dragon coins quickly sold out at the Mint.

Subsequently, we completed the ‘KKK’ line-up of high reliefs – meaning that as well as an individual 2012 Kookaburra, you can also acquire a 2012 Kangaroo and Koala in this format.

Unique Year Set Coming in November

It’s already fairly well-known that in November we are issuing a Year Set comprising all four of these superb releases in a single presentation case. With just 1,000 sets available worldwide, it will make a rare and remarkable addition to any collection.

The current line-up of high relief silver proofs also includes a 2013 Year of the Snake coin. Released just last week, it’s selling strongly, confirming that these outstanding Australian coins are making a deep impression on the worldwide collector market.



  22 Responses to “High reliefs make deep impression”

  1. I think this set is in poor taste from the Perth Mint.

    When a high relief is released under a limited mintage of 7500 or whatever the number is, I would like to think that I have one of only 7500 of those coins available and that is why I pay the premium.

    Now the Perth Mint decides to add 4 coins together and sell as a set, all of a sudden there is another 1000 of these coins on the market which makes my initial investment worth less.

    Whats stopping the mint from creating another set thereafter and flood the market with another 2000 coins? All in all, bad taste from the mint.

    Rather just create the high relief coin with an unlimited mintage – at least then I know where I stand before I decide to put my hard earned cash towards what I thought was “an investment”.

    What the mint doesnt seem to realise, is we pay the premium to have a unique coin with a limited mintage. Its getting to the point where people are realising that the Perth Mint keep re-producing coins and its a safer bet to rather invest in pure bullion than commerative coins. Sad really.

    • And I ordered 20 of these. I am so upset at Perth. As I cannot send mine back. What a scam. Out and Out, just lied, just as our US mint does. I am now done with these guys.Pathetic..

      • I ordered 2, not 20, sorry. But you get my point ! What collectors are frustrated at is, you stated 7500 for the HR snake, and 5000 for the HR dragon and was drafted as far as I always understood, was the limit was the limit. I also thought I saw on your site that the HR snake mintage was to be 5000, not 7500. Unless I made a mistake, it seems Perth added 2500 the day of the snake HR release. But that could be my mistake. If you want to keep any credibility, stick to what you print/advertise in your pre-ad/offerings, and then don’t come back and say, this is a different product, and use this excuse to mint more. Perth can clear all this up by being a tad more honest, by adding this to all of their products, “Perth retains the rights to add more coins/increased mintage’s, at our discretion”, and at least some of us will have a better idea on if we should order 1 for our collection, and not 2, which is one to maybe sell later. Very deceiving guys ! I have to add this, as a collector that has only been buying from Perth for a year or so, your products are the best, and they put the US Mint to shame. I do not send my Perth coins in for grading, one, they’re perfect to mt eyes, two, nobody seems to care about the TPG’s slabbed Perth coins in the USA. They are of the highest quality. Too bad my Morgan collection does not look like your coins. So thank you for your quality, but please be more honest about the monitage’s, or advertise your future coins as, “more coins may be added to this product/line”.
        Thank you, H.H.Holmes (John in Co.)

        • Hi HH Holmes

          Thanks for your comments.

          Your suggestion is an interesting one and is on the agenda for the next Marketing team meeting.

          Stay with us!

          Kind regards

          Blog Team

          • Guys,or Perth,
            I have to add a couple of more things. ONE, I didn’t see an answer to my question on, did Perth originally have the HR Snake at 5000, just like the HR Dragon ? I am sure i saw this the 2/3 times that I was looking at, or on the your product page, and under the specs, and descrip’s column, can you please clarify this, so I am not up all night thinking it was my never-ending meds that I am required to take ! I’m sure you raised this by 2500 on the day f release, but as stated, I could be wrong. TWO, as I was re-reading your other post/reply’s, I
            honestly and sincerely have to totally disagree with your assessment of by adding another 1000 coins to the mix (the HR’s) that you explain these will have no effect on secondary prices, because a 1000 more spread throughout the world of collectors, is not significant. Or at least this is how I interperted or understood your reply to all of us unhappy HR collectors, and others. Here iare my thoughts, and I know here in the states, most will agree with me. When you add a 1000, or even just 500 more of the HR’s (not really interested of your other coins and their mintage #’s), you say this is not a big deal, so then you say the coin is really rare. But if you check your distributors, you will find most, not all, but for the most part, they have a huge supply of these (HR Snakes) that are just waiting for new owners. Your distributors can’t even give these HR’s away, and you say adding another 1000 will do no harm. Please !, Respectfully, I think this is one of the worst statements you have ever replied to. Have you ever gone and taken an hour or so, and check all the dealers in the USA, and see exactly how many snakes (HR’s) they have left ? Just estimating now, I would say that in the USA, you might have 250 tand up to 300 HR collectors, I could be wrong, but I do not think I am that far off. HELL, you can still get the Koala’s and the Kangie’s HR at a huge discount now, and they are 2012’s, and I realise you minted the hell out of those. But, as i have and am trying to get across, at 5000 total HR coins of any type, is right at about the correct numbers. Remember, you have many that buy many more than is needed, and not just those dealers I am referring to. I just honestly cannot believe, that you believe, that another 1000 HR’s across the board is a good thing. How many do you think are still sitting at all those dealers stores, that are affiliated with you, or buy from a dealers purchasing from those dealers ? I can even see 6000 HR’s minted, but Perth has lost some of their integrity, by minting more, and Perth will have a sell out on this 4 coin set, but it will not be a true and true sell out ! At the end of the day, you’ll still have the individual HR’s, and you’ll still have some of the 4 coin HR sets, still sitting on those dealers shelves-web listings, waiting to be sold, even at 8500, or should I say, with another 1000 minted. So these coins, do you still think they are really rare, when so many are just lying around, waiting for collectors to buy ? But, in the end, I will still buy your HR’s, but just one from now on, because until you state a coin’s firm mintage, theirs no reason to order more. So now you have all those future extra HR coins for sale, you know, the coins that I will not be buying 2 of. But when you get a chance, please answer my concerns, thank you, H.H,HOLMES

          • Hi HH Holmes

            The mintage of the high relief silver proof Snake has only ever been stated as 7,500, which is the same as the HR Dragon.

            You have certainly emphasised your point effectively. We are listening and as we said earlier, it will be discussed shortly by the team here.

            Many thanks for the input from the US,

            Kind regards

            Blog Team

          • Hi Blog Team,
            When reading your response on the feedback of HH Holmes I was, and still am, shocked!

            Not is only is supposedly considering adding ‘Retaining the rights to add more coins/increased mintages, at our discretion’ to your terms NOT providing a solution you completely missed that he is merely expressing his frustration, though have chosen his words somewhat unfortunate.

            In my view you should have interpreted his plead as; RATHER ‘Retain the right…’ THAN releasing additional mintages to an existing ‘limited’ mintage afterwards.

            Should the PM start releasing coins conditionally and possibly resulting in additional mintages in the future is without doubt inconsistent with the statement that the PM is “passionate about the interests of its collectors. Without collectors there would be no numismatic program”!

            I am positive that one very significant reason why collectors are obtaining coins from the PM is because the coins offered are being exclusive with limited mintages.

            This is what makes the coins of the PM so special; otherwise we might as well turn to e.g. the US Mint and starting to collect proof Eagles which are minted be the 100,000s and therefore not adding a comparable value to a collection.

            Furthermore, ‘retaining rights’ on mintages will surely hit the top line and therefore the PM is also not serving the objective of its holding GCA.

            Believe or not, but despite all (emotional) criticism placed on this thread as on (http://blog.perthmint.com.au/2012/10/02/october-2012-new-product-bulletin-out-today/) I am convinced that all have the best intentions and only hope the PM will learn from it.

            Plenty ideas and suggestions have been proposed and as long as the PM is taking these seriously, and in a learning way, than it will be for the benefit of us all.

            As for the upcoming marketing meeting I do hope Ron Currie himself is going to share the outcome, if any, in a separate thread.



      • Dear Perth, Thank you for clarifying the HR mintage. With my severe injuries that I suffer from, and my lack of sleep that affects my memory at times (and my typing), I find I cam make my share of mistakes. Just wanted to tell you guy’s this, and I now realize it was the Snake proofs that I was looking at 3/4 times on those very late nights that I awake.. Sorry, and again, thank you, Mr. H H Holmes..

  2. There is nothing unique about this set other than the paper COA and plastic case these coins come in. I don’t know what to say other than thanks PM for increasing the mintage on the HR’s. I suppose this is what we can expect in the future. Obviously it’s more about the money than the mints integrity. I can assure you there are alot of high relief collectors that are unhappy with the release of this set. What’s more important, dealers or the “loyal collector”? After all we are the ones buying these.

    A loyal collector.

    • Chris, Cody

      Thanks for your comments.

      Just in case you didn’t see the other thread on this topic, here’s a repeat of our earlier response:-

      The Mint is passionate about the interests of its collectors. Without collectors there would be no numismatic program!

      But we are also a commercial operation, created by an Act of Parliament to return a profit to the State of Western Australia by adding value to Australian precious metals for export.

      Our job is to balance profitable business opportunities with the interests of collectors worldwide in the best way we can.

      Sometimes this involves re-packaging a coin to create an altogether new product with an exclusive mintage. We’ve done this over many years, so there’s nothing new here.

      It is not our intention to gouge loyal collectors. Such offerings are generally created for overseas coin distributors who initiate the project and formally commit to the vast majority of the mintage.

      That’s a valid business opportunity for the Mint.

      Collectors have little to fear from it. We believe the packaging and format variations we insist on make them separate, unique products.

      Even if you don’t accept that, an increase of 1,000 from such a low mintage base does not alter the fact that they remain extremely rare.

      In both examples discussed in this thread, we’re reasonably confident of achieving sell out – meaning secondary market prices won’t be unduly affected either.

      Hopefully this provides a better understanding of our decisions. Many thanks to all those who have contributed to this post and please rest assured your interests will always be vital to us.

      Kind regards

      Blog Team

  3. The ‘KKK line up’ of high reliefs? Does nobody fact check there? What is the KKK line up of high reliefs? Hitler and who else?

  4. I try to look at the good points.

    Sometimes I don’t want a full set of HR coins, I might just want a single HR coin and sometimes I can’t afford a large coin set like the 4 x HR to be released in November.

    Perth Blog Team, I really don’t see how an extra 1,000 1oz HR proofs will affect the status of the individual coins. I realise some of the people here are upset because of the increased mintage but the increase is small for a world wide market and many of the HR coins are still available on your web site.




    I also realise that it’s very difficult for Perth to judge how the initial release of the HR Dragon would be accepted by the market but I do notice that the only High Relief coin to be sold out is the dragon (And lowest mintage); I’m not sure how sales are for the KKK overseas where you sell the bulk of your coins.

    Interesting to note are the mintages.

    2012 HR Dragon – 7,500
    2012 HR Kangaroo – 20,000
    2012 HR Kookaburra – 10,000
    2012 HR Koala – 10,000

    I think may collectors are happy to have the chance to own a 4 coin set; I know I would because I can look at all of the 2012 HR in one nice coin set.

    One last thing I want to say is that sometimes what seems bad isn’t, sometimes a few additional coins can make a coin more popular and sometimes those coins win international coin competitions.

    True collectors don’t care that much about if a particular coin is going to appreciate; sure we would all like our coins to be worth a fortune but for some of us we just like to collect a set of coins fresh from the mint.

    Perth you do a great job at bringing us very nice coins so remember that although “we” want small mintages amd fantastic coins every year that you also have a business to run and just like the flippers you have to make a buck.

    There’s absolutely nothing wrong with you capitalizing on your coin designs and the “want’s of the market.

    I look forward to your 4 coin HR set! 🙂

    Keep up the good work, you can’t please us all but generally you make Australians very proud.

    Kind regards

    Billy Black Smith

    • Thanks Billy. Your regular contributions (commendations and criticisms) to The Perth Mint blogs always make interesting reading.

      Blog Team

  5. Perth coins are always of superb quality. I received some excellent examples today. And I fully understand the desire to maximize profits.

    But there has to be a balance, and I think a lot of loyal Perth collectors are beginning to ask themselves if they want to spend money on coins whose secondary market value is regularly eroded.

    There are certainly instances when it makes sense to make a coin available for different markets and so forth. But the mint is issuing so many different coins, so many variations on the same basic design, and re-issuing so many coins that it is becoming frustrating for many buyers to keep up, or to have much chance of seeing an increase in value.

    The main motivation for collecting Perth coins should be the aesthetic enjoyment they bring, but price appreciation is also important for most people.

    Finally, I think the Mint sometimes overestimates demand for some of its products.

    These comments are all intended to be constructive, and I continue to be an admirer of the mint and its coins.

    I look forward to hearing the mint’s response.

    By the way, was a formal sell-out of the bullion 2013 snake ever announced?

    • Hi Louis,

      Good to hear from you again and thanks for your kind comments about the quality of our products.

      Thanks also for understanding the business rationale of The Perth Mint – we have a specific brief to generate profit on behalf of our owners, the people of Western Australia. It would be an extraordinarily sad day for collectors and investors if the existence of the Mint was threatened by its inability to meet this mandate!

      On your main point about the large number of “variations on the same basic design” – this observation really only applies to the Lunar coin program since 2012. We certainly didn’t hear any comments on this topic prior to then.

      As you know, the Year of the Dragon heralded unprecedented demand. We set out to meet the interest and given extra capacity could have sold more product than we actually released into the market. The most popular Dragon variations sold out very quickly; only a handful are yet to reach their mintage limits.

      Given so many sell outs, we think it’s valid to question whether “secondary market value is regularly eroded”.

      The Lunar Snake is also an expansive program – planned at the height of the Dragon frenzy. Demand is good, but the market is not quite what it was. In tandem with our dealers and distributors, we are watching developments closely. Comments from you and others are clearly extremely useful in gauging collector sentiment.

      So we hope these thoughts are useful and that the message that we are genuinely listening to collectors’ concerns can be conveyed to your readers.

      Appreciate your interest,

      Kind regards

      Blog Team

      PS Snake sell out announcements are provided here.

  6. Greetings Blog Team,

    Thanks so much for taking the time to address my concerns. Other world mints could learn from the way Perth takes the views of its buyers seriously.

    A friend of mine noted that the high relief set only adds 1,000 to the mintage, which is not that much really.

    I appreciate the additional information.

    As you may know, I cover a wide range of numismatic issues for Coin Week (www.coinweek.com), and I may include your comments in a future article. I do my best to keep American readers abreast of Perth developments.

    I would like to extend my compliments on the Sydney Cove medallion set, which is really superb. And you packing team does a terrific job.

    Kind regards,

  7. Will the 2012 High Relief Gold Dragon Proof be offered to Collector’s in the USA through New York Mint? Hopefully so as I am looking forward to it.

  8. And, by the way Perth Mint…your Gold Port Phillip Kangaroo recently struck for New York Mint (AMS) is stunning. A very well sculpted and struck pieces. Just reading through the comments I think some collectors seem to forget that Perth Mint is a business. I personally feel lucky (from the USA) that we still have viable businesses such as Perth who product an outstanding product and give collectors around the world many options to choose from. I even support the exclsuive products for distributers like Paradise Mint and Asset Marketing. Please keep those relationships going. As far as investment and oversaturation…the collector should buy for the appreciation and the beauty. I am assuming that the mintages aren’t being changed, the total mintage includes other packaging options.

  9. I know i’m a little late to this debate BUT—these coins are very limited and extremely high quality (wish the us mint could do this).HOWEVER if you’re going to do a limeted mint coin ALL sets should be included in the total!! (i.e. us proof silver set w/ase OR 4 coin HRset perth mint). if you want to keep dedicated (not just speculators) collectors in the loop BE HONEST IN YOUR TOTAL PUBLISHED MINTAGES UP FRONT-you may be suprised how many new collecters you pick up!! NOBODY likes a grifter once they’re exposed.


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